Season Three Finale: Chaos, Clarity, and the Changing Skies — A Conversation with Lucas Martin, SVP Sales at American Airlines

Travel Again Season Three, Episode 7 - Lucas Martin

The final episode of Season Three of the Travel Again Podcast delivers exactly what listeners have come to expect: unvarnished insight into the business of travel, a frank look at industry trends, and a powerful interview with one of the newest leaders shaping air travel’s future.

In this episode, hosts Ed Silver and Mike McCormick sit down with Lucas Martin, SVP of Sales at American Airlines, for an in-depth conversation about change, leadership, and the future of airline distribution.

But before the interview, the co-hosts break down the headlines that matter most right now—from uncertainty in international travel and geopolitical disruptions, to Delta’s cautious guidance and the continuing impact of AI on travel services.

Key Highlights

1. Travel Disruption and Resilience

Mike and Ed discuss the triple threat facing international travel: consumer hesitation, global tensions, and shifting airline outlooks. Despite these headwinds, airlines like Delta and American are maintaining solid performance and adapting quickly—evidence that the travel industry remains one of the most resilient sectors in the global economy.

2. AI and Agentic Platforms

The team explores Navan’s introduction of its AI-powered assistant “Ava,” designed to deliver “zero critical hallucinations.” Ed draws a comparison between today’s AI boom and the blockchain hype of years past—but sees real transformative power in AI, particularly for workflows, customer service, and backend efficiency. Ed shares his perspective as a power user of generative AI and applauds Navan’s focused, safety-conscious implementation.

3. Customer Experience Arms Race

A new article in Travel Weekly prompts a conversation about American Airlines’ customer experience upgrades. Both hosts agree: investment in premium experiences signals a healthy market. Ed praises innovations like AA’s new app functionality and even the steak-and-pimento-cheese sandwich—highlighting how small improvements shape customer perception and loyalty.

4. SafeTravelRx and "Jump the Line"

The hosts also share a spotlight on this week’s sponsor, SafeTravelRx. Their new Jump the Line service promises instant human assistance in moments of travel disruption—a paid service well-suited to business travelers and anxious families alike. It’s a valuable add-on for any brand looking to offer travelers peace of mind through private-label partnerships.

Featured Interview: Lucas Martin, SVP Sales at American Airlines

The interview with Lucas Martin is the centerpiece of the episode. A former Navy submarine officer and Bain & Co. consultant, Lucas brings a combination of strategic vision, systems thinking, and humility to his role at American Airlines. Highlights from the conversation include:

• Lessons from the Navy: Lucas shares how leading a nuclear submarine taught him to thrive amid ambiguity, value team building, and rely on strong allies—principles he carries into his leadership at American.

• Agency and Buyer Relationships: Lucas offers a refreshingly candid take on rebuilding trust with agency partners, explaining that American is now taking a channel-agnostic approach and focusing on meeting customers where they are—without withholding features or content.

• NDC and ROI: In a pointed exchange, Lucas acknowledges that NDC hasn't yet delivered on its full promise for customers, but argues that it's beginning to show real benefits, especially through dynamic pricing and personalization.

• AI as a Transformation, Not Just a Tool: Lucas positions AI as the biggest disruption of this generation. He outlines American’s two-part strategy: adopt micro-productivity tools across the org while simultaneously executing a few macro-level AI bets to drive true transformation.

One of the best takeaways comes at the end, when Lucas reflects on managing chaos. “You have to be confident in making your own weather,” he says—summarizing both his leadership philosophy and American’s approach to navigating a fast-changing industry.

Season Wrap-Up

Ed and Mike close out the season recognizing the turbulence the industry has faced, but remain optimistic—especially with leaders like Lucas Martin entering the scene. Their final thought: strong competitors, invested in innovation and partnerships, are exactly what the travel industry needs right now.

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Full Transcript (Lightly Edited for Readability)

Welcome to the clean, lightly edited transcript from our recent podcast Episode, "Travel Again Podcast - Interview with Lucas Martin | S3E7" from the Travel Again Advisory channel.

Welcome to Travel Again Presents, the weekly travel roundup covering the headwinds and tailwinds impacting the business of travel. Please welcome our hosts, Mike McCormick and Ed Silver.

Ed Silver: Mike, it is so nice to be back with you. It's been too long. How are you doing?

Mike McCormick: Good. How are you doing, Ed? Good to be back. Good to be here.

Ed Silver: I can't believe it. It is season three, episode seven. And Mike, this is the final episode of season three as we head into summer. We'll be back for season four in the fall. We're going to keep on rolling, man. Keep on rolling.

Mike McCormick: This has been a great season. We have had some amazing guests. As always, today, we're going to wrap the season with a relatively new leader in our space, and I'm just really excited to hear from him and what he's got going on. He's got his hands full, and I'm excited to hear how he's managing through all of it. So with that, Mike, let's bust right into the news.

For Article One today, Mike, I've made this a challenge for you because I've actually combined three articles into one. So I'm going to give you the headlines of the three articles, and as you're talking about them, I'll bring them up. Let's see if you can figure out the theme of the three and bring some context and insights into it for our listeners. The first one, Mike, a survey shows weakness in international travel. There's been a number of articles on this, but we're going to talk about some weakness in international travel. The second one, and this happened while we were on break between episodes, disruptions as airlines cancel flights and reroute planes to avoid Middle East airspace. And lastly, just this week, Delta reinforces full year guidance, but the outlook is still blurry. So, Mike, those are three articles all in the same space. Try to bring it all together for our listeners.

Mike McCormick: All right. So first off, the obvious, we always talk about, travel, the travel industry, at least short term, doesn't like uncertainty. Travelers don't like uncertainty. There's always going to be on a global basis for different reasons: political, environmental, conflicts in different parts of the world, risk, short term, an error, disaster of some kind. There's always things happening that affect travel, affects the industry. And then some have a longer effect in terms of that uncertainty, changing travel demand, travel patterns, et cetera. But also, travel is very resilient. So, even though earlier in the year, Delta being the market leader, certainly when it comes to giving guidance around the market, et cetera, United usually close to follow, and American right on the heels. Usually they're all, they all kind of have similar guidance at similar times, being the three largest carriers. There's a resiliency there. So earlier in the year, I think there was a lot of concern about all the impact that the tariffs and the governmental policies were having on international travel and then therefore affecting the ability to forecast at all this year. So now we've kind of come back to guidance that says it's not going to be as great a year as we'd hoped, but it's going to be still a good year. And because of that, you could say, the headline being "still blurry." But the realities are it's still really good performance that is expected. And the stock price as a result boosted, and there was kind of some renewed confidence in the airline sector.

The other thing we know too in the market, as these things happen, it does have a pretty one-to-one obvious impact on the stock price of airlines. They tend to go up and down for the reasons we know about. But there seems to be more sensitivity to their stock prices than maybe other industries. And it's just, again, all front and center. This is all just stuff that happens in our industry. It's an interesting dynamic. We, Travel Again, during the pandemic and afterwards, we tracked a lot about traveler confidence and measuring that as a way to look at how the industry will recover from something that devastating. And we found that travelers, even though something happens in a certain part of the world, it can really have an impact on those patterns. And certainly international travel right now, I think there's a lot of concern about traveling internationally that normally isn't there. And really a lot of it is kind of unfounded, but it does affect perceptions, and perceptions do drive people's decisions about where they're going to plan their vacation, and maybe how far out they plan it, and their concerns about refundability and what happens if, and all those things. So that's the emotional part of the travel element that comes into play. A lot there in those three articles. Interestingly enough, none of it surprising, given him. But, as always, with travel, never a dull moment, man. Interesting times. Good to see the airlines able to provide some forward guidance again. We can talk more about that with our guests later.

Ed Silver: All right, Mike, I have our second technical article here for you. This one's going to throw you for a bit of a loop, so hang on. The Navan CTO is building an agentic AI platform with "zero critical hallucinations." From the article, when Navan set out to build its artificial intelligence-powered virtual travel agent called Ava, it faced the challenge of making sure the system didn't hallucinate. In corporate settings, even one AI-generated error, like offering a refund that violates fare rules or showing the wrong flight details, could lead to customer dissatisfaction, financial loss, or regulatory penalties. So, Mike, your thoughts on Navan's entry into a GenTech AI platforms?

Mike McCormick: I have none. It's over to you, Ed.

Ed Silver: Well, I don't, because I think you can't take a breath anymore without AI, AI, AI. Okay. And certainly announcements about what's happening in this area, no surprises. Everybody's trying to figure this out as they go. Huge investments are being made with a lot of uncertainty about where the payoff is necessarily yet. But I'm more curious from your perspective about the zero critical hallucinations. What does that all mean from your perspective? And what is this really saying?

Ed Silver: Yeah, I mean, first off, just on AI being everywhere, we were talking the other day about past trends that come and get frothy. And to me, AI has kind of just moved into the blockchain kind of frothiness of several years ago, where you can't talk about travel without blockchain coming up. Look, I think this is very different than blockchain. I think AI is fundamentally going to change how everything works for us. As you know, I'm a big proponent and a major user of these platforms. What's crazy is that you actually, as you plan your corporate structure and your corporate methodology around integrating AI into your offerings, the fact that you have to consider the chance that your AI or agentic platform might actually hallucinate, which is likely, is really crazy, but is a reality of using these large language models. You have to be careful. What I liked about what Navan CTO Mr. Twigg did here is he has put guardrails around the platform. He has created structures and systems to really make sure that their implementation works very specifically for them. You can read the article on payments, which is a great place to get these kind of technical articles. But overall, I think they're taking some actions to make sure that doesn't happen. And look, I think these AI assistants are going to be everywhere, especially from a customer service chatbot perspective. But Navan's taking it to that next level, putting it in front of agents, using it for workflow, using it to untangle problems. And so good on them for taking those efforts. And obviously, there'll be more to come with Navan, Mike, as you know. We'll see. They may actually be a public company. Oh, yeah. We got the IPO news. So they're going. It's just a matter of when. More to come on that for sure. I'm sure we will be talking about that as well.

Mike McCormick: One thing I do want to say before we leave this topic is that I remember fondly a time when AI only meant all-inclusive, and we were thinking about what vacation we were going on.

Ed Silver: Yeah, it's a shame because sometimes you see AI, and they mean all-inclusive.

Mike McCormick: I think that's forever changed.

Ed Silver: All right, Mike, I have one more article for us. The title is "Amid competitive pressure, American elevates its customer experience" from the article on Travel Weekly. With a slew of initiatives announced this year, American Airlines is beefing up its customer service to better compete for premium travelers. Analysts, however, want to see if American will have the wherewithal long term to match what Delta and United are doing. So a little context here, Mike, and then I'm sure we can throw this to our guest.

Mike McCormick: Yeah. So first off, I really love a time in the industry. It speaks to the overall health of the industry when you've got carriers investing more and more in the product, the premium product that says generally good things about industry health. Because when times are hard, you don't have the money. The customers aren't coming. That's the part of your market that tends to suffer, because in a cost-cutting economy, downsizing kind of mode, we're clearly not there. So that speaks to the economy in general holding strong, or as strong as you know, and the health of the airlines. American being one of them, having the money to be investing in these product areas. And even if you can't afford them, and you're not using them, it still has the aspirational part of, just, you know, gee, hopefully I save enough, fly enough, get enough points, find it, get an upgrade. I can also get to experience that product. So again, and even things they're doing on the coach product too, some better food options and different, anything helps, right. The experience. So, good for American speaks to their efforts to financially and otherwise to turn the corner and be investing back in the product is a good thing. So again, I think more just a bellwether for me of the continued health of the industry, which is really, really good.

Ed Silver: Yeah, I agree. I love the investment. I am looking forward to trying the steak and pimento cheese sandwich, which apparently is a big hit in their new menu, and the new app. Is there any way you can do upgrades within the new app? Those are all innovations that as a huge American, as you know, it's my primary airline flying out of Charlotte, Nashville. So, big changes. So that is great. Okay, Mike, we will be right back with our guest after this quick commercial break. Mike, thanks to our sponsor, Safe Travel Rx, an app that takes the worry off your itinerary, providing travel peace of mind with emergency response components, travel security, and risk management, especially for those traveling internationally. It includes 24/7 global concierge assistance. Landed in the hospital in China? Forgot your prescription? While it's stolen? Safe Travel Rx is your prescription for better, safer travel.

Mike McCormick: Well, now we get to announce their brand new product called Jump the Line Service. It's really great for travelers who are worried about, can't deal with the lines, have an emergency in terms of there's a weather delay, there's a flight cancellation, and they really just got to get to where they've got to get to. This is a quick, easy, guaranteed paid service where you can call. Within a minute, two minutes, you're getting an immediate callback. You're solving the problem. And taking some of the pressure off of the airlines too. They can't always, the people they're dealing with, with the flights they can deal with within their own network, don't always meet the need. And if you're a traveler, you're in those situations, you're worried about what do I do if I change airlines, if I do what, but I've got to get from point A to point B, and that could be a business traveler, it could be a family, it could be someone who's just, they've got to get to where they've got to get to. So it's a new service they've incorporated. It's pretty cool. And again, I think one that not only for a consumer or somebody who's an individual traveler, but our audience out there, there's a lot of folks that deal with and are work at travel brands or brands that have a travel element or a member element. If you're looking to add this as a service, they do basically white label, private label provider. They will work with you in a biz dev capacity to help you provide that service for your customers. So again, great service, great company, and take a look, Safe Travel Rx.

Ed Silver: All right, download it today to discover the power of Safe Travel Rx. Safe Travel Rx, your prescription for better travel. All right, Mike, thanks for that. And now onto our guest. Today we have the pleasure of having Lucas Martin on the show. Lucas Martin is the Senior Vice President of Sales at American Airlines and oversees the team focused on corporate accounts, agency partners, and the AA Advantage business program. He is the chief architect of the evolution of American sales and distribution strategy. He joined American after spending a career in the industry as a partner with Bain & Company, a strategy consulting firm. And before that, Lucas served as an officer in the US Navy's nuclear submarine program. I can't wait to hear about that.

Mike McCormick: Yeah. Okay, please welcome to the stage, Lucas Martin.

Ed Silver: Hello, Lucas.

Mike McCormick: Hey, Lucas. Thanks for coming aboard, man. Appreciate it.

Ed Silver: Thanks for being here, Lucas.

Lucas Martin: Happy to be here, and for the season finale.

Ed Silver: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get to help us close out before summer. Make it a good one, Lucas. Make it a good one.

Mike McCormick: Well, you know, Ed said it. I mean, a couple of different things I want to talk about a little bit in your background, just about you and getting to know you a little bit for our audience. But, you know, let's start with Naval Academy submarine officer. How do you translate that, or at least the parts that do translate, to working in a senior level job within the travel industry, and for an airline? I mean, tell us a little bit about that transition and what do you bring with you to the job that you learned there. Nuclear submarines.

Lucas Martin: Yeah. No less. Sometimes at night I glow, you know. My time in the Navy was probably some of the most exotic adventures of my life, but also probably some of the most formative experiences that I had. A lot of those being transferable for here. So with regards to what you're describing on these complex sales relationships and partnerships, there's a couple of things from that period of my life that have informed my approach. One is really building the team and how I work with the team every day. The second is dealing with ambiguity. And I'll talk a little bit more about that. And then the third is having allies. So let me start with the team. The most important lesson that I took away from my time in the Navy is that it truly takes a team. Amazing things happen when you put together the best team, give them clear objectives, trust them to make good decisions, empower them to do their job, and to move at speed, and honestly just advocate for them. So, a big part of that is creativity, creating this culture of accountability. And there's another part of it, which is differentially focused on the customer. You kind of led with that a little bit in the openings of the article. It's something that's starting to permeate the broader organization. And it also means fostering a bit of a culture that encourages innovation. And I would say being risk neutral, which I sometimes feel in the airline world can be interpreted as almost risk seeking. But I think we have the best team. We have a resilient team. I've really been impressed by what they've been able to accomplish with what they've been given. And I couldn't be more fortunate to have that as a foundation.

The second piece that I was talking about was the ambiguity. Driving a nuclear-powered submarine, driving a 7,000-ton nuclear-powered submarine hundreds of feet deep, and you're basically doing it with your eyes closed. So you have to be comfortable in managing ambiguity and piecing together different data sources to create what is the real picture. And so that means you have to think probabilistically and not anchor on one view of the world, but instead continuously evaluate where things are at, set up the right listening posts and data feeds, and continuing to challenge where you're at in kind of a red team, blue team kind of way, so that you're always thinking about what's around the corner and are we ready for it? And so that's how I think about the ambiguity piece. And then the last part is allies matter. And if you're going to go far, you need a lot of great partners. So true in the military, and in the airline space, there's so many partners, both on the distribution side. I would also say even with our joint business partners, we have the best joint business partners, which give us incredible global coverage, and really in the broader ecosystem. Our view is that we have an obligation to be great partners to those that want to be great partners to us. And that's honestly something that we lean into.

Mike McCormick: That's great. And then, you also compliment that, had time at Bain. So, I'm sure some of those same, when you're doing those kind of senior level advisory roles, it's work we do at Travel Again Advisory all the time for our industry. It is interesting. You do get a very different, maybe more holistic view of the businesses, of industry. It allows you to step back in a way you don't when you're actually inside of an organization and see different organizations, sometimes competitive companies, and really start to get a bigger view. I'm assuming that in a similar way, that's been helpful to you so far as well, yeah?

Lucas Martin: Oh, yeah, for sure. You guys mentioned a couple of those senior level type or just macro trends in the industry when it comes to AI, when it comes to the realities of managing disruptions. And you mentioned a couple of the uncertainties with tariffs or just travel policies, and all those things create uncertainty, create a world that we're seeing more of these. We're seeing them more frequently, we're seeing them more severe. And so just being able to manage these disruptions is a requirement of leadership. And what we're doing at American here, and the transformation that we're doing here at American, is honestly another major disruption. And having led those, and having gone through, there's a couple of things that I take from my Bain experience in how we do this. And the first part is just recognizing that these transformations and change in general are rarely a steady up and to the right. Things often happen slowly and then suddenly. And that can be an uncomfortable way of thinking, but it means that agility matters. It means that having leading indicators to know you're on the right path matters. It means being ready for opportunities when they come is also super critical. And that's because I see these disruptions, and you've kind of mentioned a couple of them, as opportunities, opportunities to redefine the playing field. And I see them as being, there's micro disruptions, these small ones. There's also seismic ones. And as those occur, it's important for an organization, for American, to play to our strengths, to leverage those and use those as opportunities to win in that disruption and reset that playing field. And to also appreciate that this is a constantly evolving marketplace. Customer expectations are always evolving. You mentioned that a bit with the customer experience work that we're doing here. The competitive landscape is something that is certainly not stagnant. So that means, as we think about our approach to these macro trends or these macro strategies, we have to appreciate that these strategies have a half-life to them. And they have to continuously be re-evaluated. They have to continuously be reviewed and reassessed. And all that needs to be taken into account. And then maybe one finer point on that is that I'll start where I, or I'll stop where I started, which is, change is hard. And so we need to be very data-driven and firm in our ambition and our approach, and to be very respectful in the industry too, in appreciating that this isn't just change for us, it's change for the entire ecosystem. And there's a lot of emotion in air travel. And so we need to be really thoughtful on how do we engage that environment in what really is the most productive way and supported way for everyone.

Mike McCormick: Well, so there's a lot in what you said. I'm going to drill into a couple of different areas, kind of look at it from an agency perspective, a buyer perspective, a little bit of just different aspects of the industry. But I think you said a couple of things really interesting, really stood out when you're talking about, which is first off, look, it's been well documented, well reported, everything about your kind of predecessor and the crash course and the fact that America was on because of it. And I think one of the things to me, in stepping back and looking at it, it was a lot of times it wasn't about what was being attempted in terms of, hey, we want to modernize, we want to move to dynamic pricing, we want to have, we need to change our relationship with agencies, we need to change our relationship with the buyers. It wasn't about trying to do those things, but it was with the kind of lack of respect for the industry that was missing. It was like, well, we're doing this with or without you kind of attitude, and it's like, no, it doesn't work that way. To your point, you do need allies. We have an industry that is highly interdependent on all the links, and you just can't try to force everybody down a path. Now, because our industry can tend to be a little slow and a little risk averse. But I mean, I always come back around to, there's a reason for that. Because there are, we're dealing with, in particular with airlines, but all segments industry, look, we're dealing with travel is also a lot about people's health and well-being in a very real, direct way. So that's not something you take lightly. And the technology behind it and everything, there's a lot of reasons why we are where we are, why it takes as much time as it does. But what's interesting, and I'm actually, for you in this role and for American in the industry, what occurs to me is that also though, was a bit of a scorched earth. It did create what it did, but it also now allows you to build it back maybe differently, better. Like you said, leverage some things that maybe others can't because you're not burdened with some of the legacy, which again, it comes with a price, but. And so, drilling into like the agency community, where's that relationship now? How are you? It's been pretty quiet in terms of like I'm not reading any articles about, like, warfare. Now it seems to be calm and quiet. Where do your agency relationships stand and maybe a bit about where do your buyer relationships stand right now from your perspective?

Lucas Martin: Yeah. Happy to talk about that. Ultimately, the agencies are distributing our product. And so what we at a minimum need to do is we need to believe in the product that we're selling, and they need to believe in the product that they're selling as well. So let me start there. And I do believe we have a really compelling value proposition that we're confident that we can win with. And to put a finer point on that, we have a leading loyalty program. We have the newest fleet. We have a differentiated hard product, which are with our flagship suites, the lounges you'd mentioned, and the Philly cheesesteaks. We do have a compelling network, and we do like the distribution technology that we've been investing in. We have invested and continue to do so. And then you mentioned in your last article, the heavy investments in the customer experience. So all to say, we really like what we're selling, and we're proud of what our agency partners can sell. And given this, our strategy is to meet the customers where they are at and to be ready to compete. We recognize that different customers have different needs and therefore require different channels to access our content. And so the indirect channel, like the one that you're mentioning, is certainly worth calling out. And it offers very attractive, necessary, and almost obligatory requirements of a value proposition to their customers. So what I need to do is create a process and a capability for us to be honestly channel agnostic. Let me be really specific on that. Our role is to be channel agnostic and to meet the customer wherever they choose to engage with our content because they're making the best decision for their business. And we will just be ready to compete for them wherever they decide to access our content. That really is their decision. And so the channel is one of those marketplaces we are certainly embracing as a series of different captive pools of demand. And of course, the attractiveness of those pools will inform our strategy, as does the quality of the partnership. But as a theme, we're channel agnostic. We are ready to compete in all pools. And like I said earlier, a theme from the Navy, and you mentioned it as well, we are ready, and we will be really great partners to those that want to be great partners to us.

Ed Silver: Lucas, does that mean that all innovations that occur at the .com level, your direct level, will be available to all channels? Because I think that's one of the things people are the most interested in is being able to take advantage of every feature and function that you can do it at the .com level at all channels.

Lucas Martin: Yes. And those limitations are not on the American side. Now, if some of the downstream channel partners might not have the tech investments to enable all those things, it wouldn't be held back on the American side. But if there are downstream constraints, it would not be something that is being done because American is withholding anything.

Ed Silver: Okay. So let's switch gears. I'm going to jump to NDC, another added to AI and blockchain. But with NDC and with dynamic pricing, with all that comes with it, one of our criticisms has been not that there's not value that could be there that should be there in terms of providing a more tailored, customized experience for each customer or for a corporation or for however, whatever pool or target audience you're going after. The ability to price more effectively, work more, again, use all the capabilities that are there and continue to evolve those. But seemingly, mostly, wrote been writing stuff about it, it's like, and this is speaking not American, this is just generally the industry, there really has been very little if any real benefit ultimately that's been delivered to the customer in whatever form. It's been largely a lot of work and maybe just necessary work. I don't know, to prepare the whole infrastructure to be able to do this. I know that was a lot of it at the early stages, but it feels like a lot of the focus, and I guess the comment is, if it just ends up being another way that airlines find a way to squeeze a little more yield out of the and a little more juice out of the lemon from a pricing or yield perspective, then it's really a lot much ado about nothing. But if the customer actually benefits and sees new ways that they're getting product that's really tailored to them, pricing that's even more appropriate, et cetera, et cetera, and packaging in a way they haven't seen before, well, then we're talking. But it seems like a lot of the benefit, if not all, has really been just on the supply side. So thoughts about that. Where does this fit in? Where do you see it going for American?

Lucas Martin: Yeah. I agree with your principle that all of the ecosystem needs to be ROI focused in the decisions that they're making from really across the board. And I also agree with your assertion that customer value and providing more value to the end customer is probably one of the most compelling paths to unlocking that ROI. And I think tech can be really one tool in the toolbox to do that. You had mentioned a little bit on continuous pricing. That is something that we are able to provide access to our customers on the best content. And it's something that we continue to roll out to more markets. It is a relatively new development in the airline industry, and it certainly can only be distributed in technology advanced channels. Certainly anything NDC related, dot com, all those have it. And it's currently focused on the domestic network, but we're working on expanding that more internationally as well. But yeah, I think that's one component that's a game changer to be able to allow the better content and the better pricing availability. That is one way that it's valuable to the end customer. There's this other piece, which is when we know who's shopping, we know how to best take into account what they already have from their loyalty status. And so that allows us to say, actually, I can automatically suppress some of our products because we know that your status benefit already includes those. It's just a better travel experience. And then we can also personalize and tailor the shopping experience to the individual traveler or to an individual corporate. And maybe they have a sustainability mandate. So they want a bundle that has sustainability components to it. So it allows us to. Yeah, there's the precision price points. But from the customer lens, which I agree with, is kind of the most important piece. It really allows us to have a better retail experience that's more tailored to that end customer and gives them more of the content that they're most interested in.

Ed Silver: But I guess to put a finer point on it, do you think that those advantages from a customer experience perspective that you've just drawn out and that Mike kind of drew out in his article are reality now or still a dream in the future?

Lucas Martin: Oh, it would depend on, I think there's a spectrum, right? I think there's a spectrum of where different ecosystem players, like across the board, where they're at on that. And so I think, yeah, I think it is a reality for some. I think for others, it is not. So I think you can say both, and that is true.

Ed Silver: Okay. Okay. Well, so kind of looking ahead now, for American, and as you kind of look out there, what do you think the biggest strategic challenges for American over the next few years? What's your focus? What's your mantra with your group? Where do you see the battle in the coming years here?

Lucas Martin: One of the things that you guys mentioned at the beginning was AI. As you said, I don't know how we can get through any of the conversations or any strategy discussions.

Ed Silver: It's okay. Just go for it.

Lucas Martin: Yeah. Well, I will. When I was talking about my experiences at Bain & Company, I spent my career navigating disruptions, and I would describe this as probably the greatest disruption of this generation. And the most important theme that I would say is that we need to address this not as a tech deployment, but as a business transformation. And so that's exactly how we're approaching this. And the way I think about it is that there's kind of these micro productivity tools and approaches. And so that means, yes, I'm going to have co-pilot in my Outlook, and I'm going to have co-pilot helping my emails or those different types of things. But that's, and that has to kind of be rolled out at scale. But then there's also these macro business transformation type things. And we need to find the very specific use cases and really go all in on three or four of them and really use that to unlock what can be truly transformational for the business. And the way to think about it is that today, AI is the worst that it will ever be, and some of this stuff is already pretty compelling.

Ed Silver: Right. Amazing. Yeah.

Lucas Martin: And so, when I look at it like that, and I look at those use cases of where it's already compelling, wow, that gets pretty exciting on what we can do with it.

Ed Silver: Open AI CEO Sam Altman said almost exactly the same thing. The version we're using today is so bad compared to the next one that he's testing that it's really amazing. So, yep, I hear you on that. Wow. And anything else that from, you know, that you want from American's perspective and kind of where, you know, again, where you're going as an organization, anything you want to tell our audience about how you're looking at how America is going to compete in the next couple of years.

Lucas Martin: We are excited to continue to build off of the strong foundation that we have, like I said, in the network, in the loyalty program, into kind of those leading elements, and really start to become best in class when it comes to customer experience, best in class when it comes to our distribution strategy and the depth of our partnerships. And I'm really excited about what we have from an AI perspective and the bets that we're making. I think we're being really thoughtful about where those can truly transform the business, and we're leaning into those. So I think it's onwards and upwards from here.

Ed Silver: Great. So now we have our season three wrap-up question, which is also the wrap-up to season three. We're all faced with real and perceived chaos in our personal and professional lives. So how do you cope with chaos in your life?

Lucas Martin: I think keeping perspective is important. We touched a little bit on this, but really to understand that everything is not always up and to the right, and that it really is the longer term trajectory that matters. And if we're doing something and it's hard, it's often because you're doing something that's different. And that's what we're doing here at American. And you have to be confident in making your own weather and seeing it through, but you also have to balance that with a slight bit of paranoia that you might be missing something and really appreciating that you're not going to bat a thousand and you really need to be constantly reacting to that broader marketplace. And so that's how I think about the chaos in my life, in the industry, and just kind of navigating uncertainty overall.

Mike McCormick: Great. Well, again, Lucas, thanks for coming aboard and being a part of our show. Appreciate your insights. And Ed, anything else from you?

Ed Silver: No, that was great. Thank you, Lucas. Lucas Martin is Senior Vice President of Sales at American Airlines. Welcome to the travel family, Lucas. Thank you for joining us.

Lucas Martin: Thank you. Nice speaking with you.

Ed Silver: Nice speaking to you. All right, Mike. Well, I mean, I was very impressed by him today. Seems like a very steady hand, obviously, after some turmoil at American Airline. I think he's a wise choice for this role, Mike, I think. What do you think?

Mike McCormick: Yeah, same. And I appreciate his commentary just about the way he approached his team and allies and thinking of the industry that way. Because like I said, I mean, I think a lot of the concepts weren't flawed. It was the kind of the really disdain or the lack of appreciation for the industry that was missing. And I think now, as you know, many business books have been written about how hard it is to get that back. But to your point, they need and wisely so. So having that approach to the industry and accepting that it's not going to be perfect, but they seem to have now really turned the corner to being focused on and being able to focus solely on what's ahead. Which is good to see and very good for the industry. We need strong competition. We need healthy players. We need, this is what the industry needs, especially when you've got all this change in the midst. We need that.

Ed Silver: Yeah. I mean, I think his quote about needing allies, and that's what I think was missing is treating partners like allies. So good on him. All right, awesome. Well, that's a great way to wrap the season, Mike, and that is our show. If you have a challenge in your business or want to better understand the chaotic world of travel, reach out to us at Travel Again to see how we can help bring clarity to your business. Now back by Focusrite Data and Research. Mike, we'll see you back again here next season. That's it for the season, Mike. See you next time.

Mike McCormick: See you next time.

You can find the full podcast episode here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVpR2vDKexY